It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. Crap! Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. PDF R134a R513A - Tecumseh Products I found that in the..Maxposition on the control it will have the compressor running all the time. The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. The condenser water inlet temperature and flow rate are controlled with the use of a . Hence, let us continue to fix it. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. Electric fans do wear out. What is a T/C?4. By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. The car never overheats, if that has any import. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. I'm not sure. R-134a XV for R-134a use. It is mixed with the freon for the most part, and does accumulate in all components in small amounts. I know this is bad, etc, and deposits on the metal can act as insulators. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? R12 to R134a change expansion valve? - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air Expansion valves are an active device, they regulate the flow of refrigerant to the evaporator depending on evaporator temperature. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. ing the expansion valve, a maximum opening superheat of 7F, and a standard factory air test superheat setting. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. The only mechanical differences between an R12 system and an R134a system are that R134a systems typically have larger condensers and more powerful compressors. Don't like the sound of custom parallel condensor. R12 is simply too expensive for a 25+ year old A/C system. The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. That is a good thing. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Hi pdrayton- If you can remember the oil capacity that you found in all your research and post that, then bohica and others can have a better idea if you have too much; see if you can find that info! All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Though I have seen em run as cold as 12 deg F. If the thermo switch is malfunctioning. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve It is common for eurocar threads to go multiple pages, and as Nick points out - sometimes cool is all you will ever get. Can I Use Automotive r134a in a Refrigerator | An Expert Guide R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. Vent temperatures slowly go down to around 50F with hi speed driving. might be due to charge or different compressor and age. R12 is used in several applications like low temperature, medium temperature, and high-temperature applications. R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). gital control scheme. By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. Have a look in the FAQ Section, and look for "Fan clutches & testing them". The cable is adjustable at the valve arm. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. Stopleak is also risky. I'll report back on the aux fan on performance next. Be sure to test @ 1500 to 2000 engine rpm, and record the ambient temp as well. I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve #19. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. The evap is hard to get at. Get to the point where I can walk without crutches2. I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. Then at least I'd know really where I am on it. For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. In sum, R12 has done more bad than good. For R12, its mineral oil. Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. Nice to use new gadgets! I've done the FSM test and with 81F ambient, the vent should be 50F. video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. Since then, the industry standard has been R134a, which is an efficient replacement. As an example, let's say the R12 charge specification is listed at 2 lbs. A thermostatic expansion valve (TXV) (see Figure 1) is a refrigeration and air conditioning throttling device that controls the amount of refrigerant liquid injected into a system's evaporatorbased on the evaporator outlet temperature and pressurecalled the superheat. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. Flushed, vacuumed etc. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. 2) Frost on the Vents. a 50f delta across the condensor is good, but I suspect that is an idle reading. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. They would then make short "jumper hoses" to connect to the existing stock hoses, refit your old fan if there is a "pusher" fan, and recharge to specs. Can I use the one for the R-12? R12, on the other hand, has an ozone depletion potential of 1, implying that it can damage the ozone layer. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. Table 1 summarizes the technical characteristics of three potential R134a alternatives. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. Expansion Valve Differences R12 vs R134 - Automotive Air Conditioning and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. Any advice appreciated. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). In short, NO! If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. Yes, the 50F diff (160-110F) on the condenser was at idle, and ambient was about 90F. . Took me a while to figure that one out, and how to say that. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Expansion Valve for R134a? | Team Chevelle In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. To ensure the right charge, you must fill the new system with between 75 and 85% of the factory-set capacity for optimal cooling. If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). The difference between the two is about 10,000 btu/h. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. AFAIK, there is no clutch on the engine fan on the 240D. You can use this space to go into a little more detail about your company. hardly noticable. In large application systems, the vapor density of this refrigerant is usually high. R-12 vs R-134a Hose - Pelican Parts Forums A. Pressure/temperature plot of R134a vs. R12 is shown in figure 1. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. The good thing is that after you convert to R134 you can top off the system easily and cheaply. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Are r12 and r134 fittings different? A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. Osuagwu Solomon is a certified mechanic with over a decade of experience in the mechanic garage, and he has over five years of experience in the writing industry. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. 1.5 ounces - hmmm. Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. What is needed? Further production of R12 was banned in some developed countries by the Montreal Protocol because of its harsh effect on the ozone layer. Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. This is an electronic tool that sucks in air through a tube and across a sensor. Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents.